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Public transport stops: PTv1 and PTv2 tagging #1166

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opened 2021-08-23 06:59:45 +00:00 by vng · 10 comments

vng commented

2021-08-23 06:59:45 +00:00

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This stops are not visible - same as in the default osm.org render :)
https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/342064729
https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/3447584721

Process public_transport=stop_position + bus=yes/trolleybus=yes/tram=yes like current railway=tram_stop or highway=bus_stop.
This points are usually placed on a road, which is ok for tram but not good to draw bus_stops on highways ..

More enhanced way is also process "connected" public_transport=platform.

This stops are not visible - same as in the default osm.org render :) https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/342064729 https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/3447584721 Process public_transport=stop_position + bus=yes/trolleybus=yes/tram=yes like current railway=tram_stop or highway=bus_stop. This points are usually placed on a road, which is ok for tram but not good to draw bus_stops on highways .. More enhanced way is also process "connected" public_transport=platform.

👍 1

alexey-zakharenkov commented

2021-08-24 10:22:43 +00:00

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Process public_transport=stop_position + bus=yes/trolleybus=yes/tram=yes like current railway=tram_stop or highway=bus_stop.

If you do so, without special processing you'll get many duplicate features, since often there is a stop_position on the way as well as a bus_stop beside the way. In Minsk 2090 bus stop_positions out of 2168 has a bus_stop in 30m vicinity: http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/1aA8

Old tags are not deprecated so a legal solution would be to add highway=bus_stop tag on bus platforms in OSM for buses; to add railway=tram_stop in OSM on what is tagged public_transport=stop_position + tram=yes, or consider the latter combination to be a tram_stop during data processing for trams.

> Process public_transport=stop_position + bus=yes/trolleybus=yes/tram=yes like current railway=tram_stop or highway=bus_stop. If you do so, without special processing you'll get many duplicate features, since often there is a stop_position on the way as well as a bus_stop beside the way. In Minsk 2090 bus stop_positions out of 2168 has a bus_stop in 30m vicinity: http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/1aA8 Old tags are not deprecated so a legal solution would be to add highway=bus_stop tag on bus platforms in OSM for buses; to add railway=tram_stop in OSM on what is tagged public_transport=stop_position + tram=yes, or consider the latter combination to be a tram_stop during data processing for trams.

👎 1

vng commented

2021-08-24 12:18:43 +00:00

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@alexey-zakharenkov I understand that, and of course it should be done for the stops without old PT1 tags. And I already consulted with Belarus community and they confirmed to add PT1 tags into OSM.

pastk commented

2022-01-31 22:35:26 +00:00

Owner

Just want to make clear that we can ignore public_transport=stop_position most of the time as its not meant to mark a place where passengers wait for a ride - there is a public_transport=platform for this. If only public_transport=stop_position is used to mark e.g. a bus stop then its a mapping mistake clearly.

Just want to make clear that we can ignore `public_transport=stop_position` most of the time as its not meant to mark a place where passengers wait for a ride - there is a `public_transport=platform` for this. If only `public_transport=stop_position` is used to mark e.g. a bus stop then its a mapping mistake clearly.

👍 1

contrapunctus-1 commented

2022-03-13 15:37:51 +00:00

(Migrated from github.com)

@alexey-zakharenkov

Old tags are not deprecated so a legal solution would be to add highway=bus_stop tag on bus platforms in OSM for buses; to add railway=tram_stop in OSM on what is tagged public_transport=stop_position + tram=yes, or consider the latter combination to be a tram_stop during data processing for trams.

Serial PT data contributor here. Duplicate tagging (public_transport=platform + bus=yes + highway=bus_stop) creates ugly duplication in OSM data. Is there any reason for Organic Maps to not render public_transport=platform + bus=yes the same way as it does highway=bus_stop (and so on) while ignoring stop positions, as suggested earlier?

@alexey-zakharenkov > Old tags are not deprecated so a legal solution would be to add highway=bus_stop tag on bus platforms in OSM for buses; to add railway=tram_stop in OSM on what is tagged public_transport=stop_position + tram=yes, or consider the latter combination to be a tram_stop during data processing for trams. Serial PT data contributor here. Duplicate tagging (`public_transport=platform` + `bus=yes` + `highway=bus_stop`) creates ugly duplication in OSM data. Is there any reason for Organic Maps to not render `public_transport=platform` + `bus=yes` the same way as it does `highway=bus_stop` (and so on) while ignoring stop positions, as suggested earlier?

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biodranik commented

2022-03-13 15:41:14 +00:00

(Migrated from github.com)

@pastk didn't we fix that already?

pastk commented

2022-03-13 16:24:32 +00:00

Owner

@pastk didn't we fix that already?

Nope, we just discussed it a few times.

> @pastk didn't we fix that already? Nope, we just discussed it a few times.

pastk commented

2022-03-14 21:36:39 +00:00

Owner

Here are some distinct cases to take into account.

Buses:

public_transport=stop_position + bus=yes and public_transport=platform + bus=yes nearby (mistagging)
https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/369658503
https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/8836094327
public_transport=stop_position + bus=yes + highway=bus_stop and public_transport=platform + bus=yes nearby (mistagging)
https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/572852998
public_transport=stop_position + bus=yes + highway=bus_stop and public_transport=platform nearby
https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/5261227
public_transport=stop_position + bus=yes and public_transport=platform nearby
https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/3045704079
public_transport=stop_position + bus=yes + highway=bus_stop and public_transport=platform + bus=yes + highway=bus_stop nearby (mistagging, bus_stop is duplicated already)
https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/993991364
https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/8736010736

Trams:

public_transport=stop_position + tram=yes and public_transport=platform + railway=platform nearby
https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/6286579023
public_transport=stop_position + tram=yes + railway=tram_stop and public_transport=platform + railway=platform nearby
https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/2294305596
public_transport=stop_position + tram=yes + railway=tram_stop and public_transport=platform + railway=platform + tram=yes nearby (mistagging)
https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/190633231

Trains:

public_transport=stop_position + railway=stop + train=yes and public_transport=platform + railway=platform and railway=halt nearby
https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/93768246
public_transport=stop_position + train=yes and public_transport=platform + railway=platform + train=yes and railway=station nearby (mistagging)
https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/997146474

I don't know frequency of those cases. And most of them are at different degrees of mistagging. Only 3, 4, 6, 7 and 9 look tagged properly (PTv2 or a mixture with PTv1).

Here are some distinct cases to take into account. Buses: 1. `public_transport=stop_position + bus=yes` and `public_transport=platform + bus=yes` nearby (mistagging) https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/369658503 https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/8836094327 2. `public_transport=stop_position + bus=yes + highway=bus_stop` and `public_transport=platform + bus=yes` nearby (mistagging) https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/572852998 3. `public_transport=stop_position + bus=yes + highway=bus_stop` and `public_transport=platform` nearby https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/5261227 4. `public_transport=stop_position + bus=yes` and `public_transport=platform` nearby https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/3045704079 5. `public_transport=stop_position + bus=yes + highway=bus_stop` and `public_transport=platform + bus=yes + highway=bus_stop` nearby (mistagging, bus_stop is duplicated already) https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/993991364 https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/8736010736 Trams: 6. `public_transport=stop_position + tram=yes` and `public_transport=platform + railway=platform` nearby https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/6286579023 7. `public_transport=stop_position + tram=yes + railway=tram_stop` and `public_transport=platform + railway=platform` nearby https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/2294305596 8. `public_transport=stop_position + tram=yes + railway=tram_stop` and `public_transport=platform + railway=platform + tram=yes` nearby (mistagging) https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/190633231 Trains: 9. `public_transport=stop_position + railway=stop + train=yes` and `public_transport=platform + railway=platform` and `railway=halt` nearby https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/93768246 10. `public_transport=stop_position + train=yes` and `public_transport=platform + railway=platform + train=yes` and `railway=station` nearby (mistagging) https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/997146474 I don't know frequency of those cases. And most of them are at different degrees of mistagging. Only 3, 4, 6, 7 and 9 look tagged properly (PTv2 or a mixture with PTv1).

pastk commented

2022-03-14 21:42:10 +00:00

Owner

E.g. converting public_transport=platform + bus=yes into highway=bus_stop will fix case 1 (no stop is displayed atm), but will lead to duplication in case 2.
Though I think that case 1 is much more common than 2 and is better to display duplicated icons than don't display anything.

E.g. converting `public_transport=platform + bus=yes` into `highway=bus_stop` will fix case 1 (no stop is displayed atm), but will lead to duplication in case 2. Though I think that case 1 is much more common than 2 and is better to display duplicated icons than don't display anything.

biodranik commented

2022-03-14 21:44:35 +00:00

(Migrated from github.com)

It is possible to detect/list these duplicates at the generation stage, and even to fix all of them worldwide (if necessary) using this list. Manually, of course.

Woazboat commented

2022-03-15 12:57:49 +00:00

(Migrated from github.com)

@pastk as a note, public_transport=platform + <method_of_transportation>=yes is valid tagging

The original PTv2 proposal seemingly doesn't mention it for platforms, but that's the de-facto usage.

(~73% of public_transport=platform are also tagged with bus=yes)
https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/?key=public_transport&value=platform#combinations

@pastk as a note, `public_transport=platform` + `<method_of_transportation>=yes` is valid tagging The original PTv2 proposal seemingly doesn't mention it for platforms, but that's the de-facto usage. (~73% of `public_transport=platform` are also tagged with `bus=yes`) https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/?key=public_transport&value=platform#combinations

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