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Properly implement addr:place and addr:street modifications in the Editor #6491

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opened 2023-11-05 23:02:28 +00:00 by hungerburg · 15 comments

hungerburg commented

2023-11-05 23:02:28 +00:00

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Not everywhere all the streets have names. In those regions, the place of the village is put into addr:place. It is not put into addr:street.

Two months ago and again this week I observed an organicmaps user adding addr:street in batches to nodes and ways with already complete address data.

Two changesets: 141144838 - 143591644 - There are more of that kind in both areas.

That makes it look like organicmaps incentivises that tagging. As long as the addr:place tag stays, it does no harm, addresses will remain discoverable by all coders. Still, I think this is wasting mapping-power and the mappings are not true to the ground neither.

Not everywhere all the streets have names. In those regions, the place of the village is put into `addr:place`. It is not put into `addr:street`. Two months ago and again this week I observed an organicmaps user adding addr:street in batches to nodes and ways with already complete address data. Two changesets: [141144838](https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/141144838) - [143591644](https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/143591644) - There are more of that kind in both areas. That makes it look like organicmaps incentivises that tagging. As long as the addr:place tag stays, it does no harm, addresses will remain discoverable by all coders. Still, I think this is wasting mapping-power and the mappings are not true to the ground neither.

hungerburg commented

2023-11-05 23:04:13 +00:00

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mentioned in issue #5307

biodranik commented

2023-11-06 12:48:26 +00:00

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As it was already discussed, a good patch would:

Properly display the "street" name taken from addr:place in the Place Page UI, so users will see it for searchable/selected POIs/buildings. @hungerburg question: what is the right way to display addr:place addresses in the UI?
Properly display the "street" name in the Editor. @hungerburg Question: when/how OM can decide if addr:street or addr:place should be chosen?
If addr:street is the same as the already existing addr:place then skip it. @hungerburg question: what if addr:street is different than the already existing addr:place?

As it was already [discussed](https://git.omaps.dev/organicmaps/organicmaps/issues/5307#issuecomment-1793745937), a good patch would: 1. Properly display the "street" name taken from addr:place in the Place Page UI, so users will see it for searchable/selected POIs/buildings. `@hungerburg` question: what is the right way to display addr:place addresses in the UI? 2. Properly display the "street" name in the Editor. `@hungerburg` Question: when/how OM can decide if addr:street or addr:place should be chosen? 3. If addr:street is the same as the already existing addr:place then skip it. `@hungerburg` question: what if addr:street is different than the already existing addr:place?

hungerburg commented

2023-11-08 11:37:18 +00:00

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what is the right way to display addr:place addresses in the UI?

Commonly, in the postal address, addr:place is shown in place of addr:street. It can also read "Haus Nr." in some villages.

when/how OM can decide if addr:street or addr:place should be chosen?

Computationally very hard - When house numbers are not ascending along a street might indicate that the village still uses the old system, where house numbers are ascending along time of construction.

what if addr:street is different than the already existing addr:place?

In Austria, there should only ever be one of them. When a commune changes the addressing scheme from the old conscription numbers to the new street level orientation numbers, the old number commonly just gets removed.

In fact, it is much a mess: A bit of overpass shows, in Lower Austria, addr:place gets accompanied by addr:conscriptionnumber instead of addr:housenumber. In Czechia and Slovakia, I see still different combinations. I guess these schemes are deeply entwined with the local community

> * what is the right way to display addr:place addresses in the UI? Commonly, in the postal address, addr:place is shown in place of addr:street. It can also read "Haus Nr." in some villages. > * when/how OM can decide if addr:street or addr:place should be chosen? Computationally very hard - When house numbers are not ascending along a street might indicate that the village still uses the old system, where house numbers are ascending along time of construction. > * what if addr:street is different than the already existing addr:place? In Austria, there should only ever be one of them. When a commune changes the addressing scheme from the old _conscription numbers_ to the new street level _orientation numbers_, the old number commonly just gets removed. In fact, it is much a mess: A bit of overpass shows, in Lower Austria, addr:place gets accompanied by addr:conscriptionnumber instead of addr:housenumber. In Czechia and Slovakia, I see still different combinations. I guess these schemes are deeply entwined with the local community

dganske commented

2023-11-20 22:04:29 +00:00

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the whole thing is a mess in the osm data model, but I think organicmaps should definitely show the addr:place tags, because we are experiencing massive amounts of edits of users of organicmaps adding nonsense addr:street tags where there already is correct addr:place value.

See for example this area in austria on overpass-turbo to get an idea of the magnitude of the issue

the whole thing _is_ a mess in the osm data model, but I think organicmaps should definitely __show__ the `addr:place` tags, because we are experiencing massive amounts of edits of users of organicmaps adding nonsense `addr:street` tags where there already is correct `addr:place` value. See for example this area in austria on [overpass-turbo](http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/1DGW) to get an idea of the magnitude of the issue

hungerburg commented

2023-11-24 10:59:05 +00:00

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Not myself a user of organicmaps, still I suspect there must be some nagging going on, another contributor over-complements addresses, e.g. here https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/11372692169

PS: That might be worth a separate issue? Organic maps contributors very often create tourism=apartment nodes, where a residential house is missing in the data, e.g. https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/11372692169/history - this is not alone.

Not myself a user of organicmaps, still I suspect there must be some nagging going on, another contributor over-complements addresses, e.g. here https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/11372692169 PS: That might be worth a separate issue? Organic maps contributors very often create `tourism=apartment` nodes, where a residential house is missing in the data, e.g. https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/11372692169/history - this is not alone.

vng commented

2023-11-25 01:16:17 +00:00

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mentioned in merge request !6643

biodranik commented

2023-11-25 09:48:23 +00:00

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@vng what is already done in your PR?

addr:place and addr:street should be properly displayed in search results.
addr:place and addr:street should be properly displayed in PP title/subtitle.

Regarding the editor. Looks like some places may have addr:place AND addr:street together: https://overpass-turbo.eu/s/1DV9

Out of 10 024 768 addr:place tags, 2 256 553 (22%) also have addr:street tag. @hungerburg @dganske what is the usual case of specifying BOTH? Is it limited only to some specific countries? Should OM allow editing BOTH addr:place and addr:street EVERYWHERE?

Another question: how is it possible to detect that addr:place should be used on some new buildings without any address, instead of addr:street? What are the rules we can use?

`@vng` what is already done in your PR? 1. `addr:place` and `addr:street` should be properly displayed in search results. 2. `addr:place` and `addr:street` should be properly displayed in PP title/subtitle. Regarding the editor. Looks like some places may have `addr:place` AND `addr:street` together: https://overpass-turbo.eu/s/1DV9 Out of 10 024 768 `addr:place` tags, 2 256 553 (22%) also have `addr:street` tag. `@hungerburg` `@dganske` what is the usual case of specifying BOTH? Is it limited only to some specific countries? Should OM allow editing BOTH `addr:place` and `addr:street` EVERYWHERE? Another question: how is it possible to detect that `addr:place` should be used on some new buildings without any address, instead of `addr:street`? What are the rules we can use?

biodranik commented

2023-11-25 09:49:36 +00:00

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@vng as a temporary intermediate solution, let's display addr:place content in the addr:street field in the editor, but in READ-ONLY mode (with an appropriate comment), so at least users can see the address, but can't break it. WDYT?

`@vng` as a temporary intermediate solution, let's display `addr:place` content in the `addr:street` field in the editor, but in READ-ONLY mode (with an appropriate comment), so at least users can see the address, but can't break it. WDYT?

vng commented

2023-11-25 10:22:41 +00:00

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I proposed the same here #6643 (comment)

I proposed the same here https://git.omaps.dev/organicmaps/organicmaps/pulls/6643#issuecomment-1825945727

hungerburg commented

2023-11-25 18:48:15 +00:00

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what is the usual case of specifying BOTH? Is it limited only to some specific countries? Should OM allow editing BOTH addr:place and addr:street EVERYWHERE?

Cannot speak for Everywhere - I know, in Czechia it is not rare to have both - best ask the community there, this is a very intricate topic there.

Speaking for Austria: Commonly, there never ever should be both. The easiest perhaps: If an address has place, don't bother adding street. On new buildings, use street.

> what is the usual case of specifying BOTH? Is it limited only to some specific countries? Should OM allow editing BOTH `addr:place` and `addr:street` EVERYWHERE? Cannot speak for Everywhere - I know, in Czechia it is not rare to have both - best ask the community there, this is a very intricate topic there. Speaking for Austria: Commonly, there never ever should be both. The easiest perhaps: If an address has `place`, don't bother adding `street`. On new buildings, use `street`.

matkoniecz commented

2023-12-07 04:35:23 +00:00

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In Poland addresses will be always indexed on street or on place, never on both.

Having addr:place and addr:street is simply wrong.

See also https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:addr:conscriptionnumber used where an object both has an address referring to a street and also one referring to the settlement.

In Poland addresses will be always indexed on street or on place, never on both. Having `addr:place` and `addr:street` is simply wrong. See also https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:addr:conscriptionnumber used where an object both has an address referring to a street and also one referring to the settlement.

biodranik commented

2023-12-11 10:22:56 +00:00

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I've made a separate issue to disable breaking OSM data, as this is the most important part now. After that, we can improve editing of addr:place addresses.
#6821

I've made a separate issue to _disable breaking OSM data_, as this is the most important part now. After that, we can improve editing of addr:place addresses. https://git.omaps.dev/organicmaps/organicmaps/issues/6821

matheusgomesms commented

2024-08-20 10:44:22 +00:00

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mentioned in issue #9029